SPECIAL NOTE > THE THREADLESS MOULDS AND INFO CAN BE FOUND IN THE HISTORICAL ARTICLE ON THIS SITE > EACH CD STYLE IS FOUND IN THE GLASS WORKS THAT MADE IT.

 

 

 CD 143 MOULD LINE OVER DOME INSULATORS


In the beginnings of insulator collecting in Canada ( by Canadians) there were many small booklets papers and articles written by people with little serious info. Following that there was an in depth study done on railway insulators by Mark Lauckner . It was a huge undertaking and was a great basis for understanding the moulds. The problem is that once a book is published , corrections , misunderstandings and new info can not be added. An open web site can do this. Although I feel that what I put forward is very complete I will try to update if needed.
I feel I should try to get these down for others to class the moulds . I will take a while as I will do them between chemo rounds.
While Mark used tin foil to get a perfect print of the letters I find I only need a rough plastic copy as it is the spacing of the words or letters and distance from the mould lines that matters. It is not possible to give a accurate picture of the copies I use , as it would have to be exactly the right length for others to use it. So instead I will give measurements. In my measurements I use a small tape measure that I got for a dollar at Home hardware . It is very flexible as it is only 1/4 inch wide.

FROM THE GLASS WORKS , ST JOHNS GLASS Co. & EXCELSIOR GLASS Co. at St Johns & Montreal.  


TOOL MARK                      

  The first thing to note to tie this group together is a removal tool. It only shows up in some of the insulators depending on how hard the tool was pushed into the pin hole when the mould was opened  . Once in a while it is seen half way down the threads. It leaves a point at the edge of the top of the pin cavity. It also can leave a line down the threads and even distort the threads if the glass was very hot and still soft.


 NOTE - point on right side of pin top , in  pic on left .              NOTE -  Distortion and line in pin hole, in pic on right .


This feature is not found on Montreal Telegraph Co. pieces . This leads me to think this particular tool was only used from about 1881 on .

It is found on the No Embossing Montreal moulds ,the raised band Canadian Pacific Ry ,  the Great Northwestern / Telegraph Co's so of course the GNW moulds , the Thin Print Canadian Pacific Ry ,and the Whittle moulds.


The Montreal Telegraph Co. dates the rise and fall of the early glass works of Quebec.

  First was the Canada Glass works of St Johns C.E. they produced M.T.Co. insulators from 1847 to 1864-5 under the different owners ,1847 Smith WiLikins & Co  , 1856 -Hugh Allan , 1860 - Eusebe Dupont ending 1864-5 .     Next to have the contract was the Canada Glass Co. Ltd. in Hudson Quebec 1864-5 to 1873 under that name . Yet under Lamplough & Campbell this glass house continued till 1876.    ( see Canada Glass Co Ltd . post ) 

 In 1876 with the opening of the St Johns Glass Co. in St. Johns Quebec the new threaded insulators were made.


M.T.Co.  CD 143 THREADED . 1876 - 1881


 The two moulds in this group are very easy to identify.  Each of these came with a smooth base or a grooved base .


Mould # 1 MONTREAL TELEGRAPH CO all on the front face of the insulator .  It has a square dome .

Below are the two moulds , below them is a pic of the smooth and groove base.

                 The square dome on the left .                                                            The round dome on the right .

      Below .third row down are the no embossing Montreal style moulds..  Square dome on left .. Round dome on right.


Mould # 2 MONTREAL TELEGRAPH / CO note the mould line seperates the CO putting it on the back half of the mould. It is the round dome .


The engraving became faint over time but I find no re-engraving of the mould.
With the end of the MTCo in 1881 these ceased to be made.  While some have thought these moulds were reworked to become the raised band (090) Canadian Pacific Ry. they were not .   These are larger than the (090 ).

NO EMBOSSING MONTREAL  TELEGRAPH MOULDS.
There are two moulds , again they are a square dome and a round dome.


While we call these No Embossing Montreal moulds they really are not. I believe they were made in about 1880 and continued to about 1884. Like the CD 742 threadless , the no embossing companion to the MTCo. base embossed mould was owned by the glass works itself. In both cases Montreal Telegraph would want all their insulators to have their name on them.                

These were even on British Columbia lines for any user of telegraph . This is well after the MTCo was gone. I fully believe these moulds were machined out slightly and used as the Thin Print Canadian Pacific Ry moulds.
 

CANADIAN PACIFIC RY. Raised band (090) 1881-1884?


This is not a slug plate which would have been a removable plate to interchange for different embossing. It is instead where previous engraving was ground away.  As stated above these were not from the old Montreal moulds. Why then the raised band ? it had to be for the removal of a previous engraving. It could have been that the engraver had made mistakes by starting at the wrong side of the mould.  Or maybe he had reversed the letters as the engraving had to be done backwards .
 My wife came up with a thought and I at first ( for one second said " dumb idea" ) but instantly thought of the possibility. Could it have been "Excelsior Glass Co."   They had their fruit jar with the E G Co logo on it , and it was a tradition with the St. Johns - now Montreal area glass works to make an insulator with the name of the works on it.

Ex . Foster Brothers 1858 and E. Dupont in 1860. So perhaps Excelsior Glass Co. , though we'll never know. 


There are two moulds in this group . A square dome and a round dome.


SQUARE DOME                                                            

  The Square dome was the mould that in the first small batch pressed , had a band that ended before the mould line of the front half of the mould . These are very tough to come by.

It was quickly ground out to the mould line . It likely was sticking on removal  of insulator from the mould as a short band .

From mould line to mould line it is 4 3/8ths inches.

The letter C in Canadian starts 3/8th inch in from the mould line on the fresh mould.                                                                                                       

 In the later rework of this mould it was machined out making the circumference larger . It is now 4 1/2 inch from mould line to mould line.

The re-embossing is all new so the C in Canadian starts 1/2 inch in from the mould line . 

Pictures below are on left fresh mould with a short band .         On right is the reworked re-engraved one . This one is a                                                                                                    medium sapphire blue.

Below that is the short band on the right and on the left is the machined to mould line on the fresh mould

ROUND DOME                                                                        

  The round dome mould in the ( 090 ) raised band had a band that went mould line to mould line from the start. The letter C in Canadian starts 5/16ths inch in mould line on the fresh mould. 


  In the later rework of this mould it was machined out making the circumference larger . It is now 4 1/2 inch from mould line to mould line, and on this one the C in Canadian again starts 5/16ths inch in from the mould line , this is because the engraving is over the old letters .

Pictures below are original fresh mould on left .                                            Re-engraved mould on right . 
 

The raised band Can Pac is one of the most colorful groups of Canadian insulators , with the exception of the CD 102 Diamond ponies .  I have over 140 on shelf. Most are aqua's and shades of green but over time unusual colours can be found . Below are pics of odd colours to watch for. While my pics are not as good as I would wish to show the colour , I post them anyways.

  Top row Left is a rich Teal Aqua.. On the right is an Ice Aqua ..

  Middle row  Left is a Olive Toned Yellow Green...On the right is a Gray Blue Ice Aqua..

  Bottom row Left is a Powder Blue ..On the right is a true Dark Green..

GREAT NORTHWESTERN / TELEGRAPH CO 1881 - 1884


There are two moulds in this set that will be reworked many times. One mould has a rounder dome and the other a pointy dome.                                                        

 In looking at the pictures one can notice the difference in letters that will help to identify a particular mould when buying off line . I did this as I didn't want to spend large amounts on the grooved base ones for a double.

NOTE  look at the R's as they are changed.

 
 ROUND DOME                                                                      

  This mould will give a 1A , & 1B  as a Great North Western , each come as a smooth base as well as a grooved base. Both of my groove base ones come in light green . It is possible that the grooved base plate was at a different glass furnace. Others could confirm or correct this thought.

 

The 1B is the rework of the 1A mould , the mould was turned out slightly and re-engraved .


 In later reworks it comes as GNW - 1A , 1B , 1C , 1D .


Great North Western / Telegraph Co


1A Embossing width on front 4 & 1/16ths inches.


1A  Embossing width on back 3 & 3/8ths inches.


1B Embossing width on front 4 & 3/16ths inches.


1B Embossing width on back 3 & 1/8ths inches.

 Pictures below show ..

Top row 1A Front on left and Back on right . 

Second row  1B Front on left and Back on right .

Bottom picture shows the mould 1B Front where the N  in Western where it was engraved on a slant .          

 

      As a GNW


1A Embossing width 1 & 9/16ths inches .                  

 Comes with a raised band from the removale of the Great Nothwestern embossing.


1B Embossing width 1 & 1/2 inches.                          

Raised band from the removale of the Great Nothwestern embossing has been machined away , giving the skirt a larger circumference.


1C Embossing width 1 & 11/16ths inches. In the picture of this one the insulator looks tall . This is because the base plate was changed to a sloped base , this gives at least 1/8th inch of a longer skirt. I am not sure if all of these 1C GNW's have this base plate

.
1D Embossing width 1 & 3/16ths inches.

 Pictures below

  Top Row ..Left is 1A ....Right is 1B...

  Second Row... Left is 1C...Right is 1D...

        POINTY DOME                                                                            

  This mould will give a 2A , & 2B  as a Great North Western , each come as a smooth base there is no grooved base on this mould.

The 2B is the rework of the 2A mould , the mould was turned out slightly and re-engraved .


In later reworks it comes as GNW - 2A , 2B , 2C , 2D .

 
Great North Western / Telegraph Co


2A Embossing width on front 4 & 1/8th inches. 


2A Embossing width on back 3 & 7/16ths inches .


2B Embossing width on front 4 & 1/8th inches. this is the same as the 2A front because the re-engraving was done exactly over the original.


2B Embossing width on back 3 & 9/16ths inches.

 Pictures shown below are ...

Top Row...2A Front on Left ......2A Back on Right

Second Row ...2B Front on Left ...2B Back on Right

  As a GNW 


2A Embossing width 1 & 11/16ths inches .                  

 Comes with a raised band from the removal of the Great Northwestern embossing.


2B Embossing width 1 & 11/16ths inches .            

 Raised band from the removal of the Great Northwestern embossing has been machined away , giving the skirt a larger circumference.


NOTE while the above 2A & 2B have the same measurement as the GNW 1C it can be seen from the pictures they are very different.


2C Embossing width 1 & 13/16ths inches . 


2D Embossing width 2 & 1/8th inches . 

 Pictures shown  below ...

Top Row ...2A on Left....2B on Right

Second Row...2C on Left...2D on Right

Bottom picture is my favorite GNW...was covered in diesel smoke when purchased , did not even know it was a GNW 

Cost was $1.00 total surprise .

 NOTE on these GNW's in both moulds the skirt is machined wider each time before new embossing.  

 

  In looking at the moulds from the first use as a Great Northwestern to the last D mould in each of the GNW's it can be seen that the curve  of the mould changes. By the end the skirt juts out at the wire groove and is not a smooth arc to the dome . It shows most on the 1D GNW.

                   THIN PRINT CANADIAN PACIFIC RY


There are two moulds , a square dome and a round dome. I believe that when the Raised Band 090 Canadian Pacific Ry moulds were finished in 1884 the No Embossing Montreal style moulds were reworked to become these Thin Print Canadian Pacific's to replace them.

                                                                      
 They seem to be a short lived production .

 There was a fire at North American Glass Co in 1885 which burned almost all of the factory . These moulds may well have been lost at that time. This would have led to this transfer by Canadian Pacific to Hamilton Glass Co.  By about 1885 the Hamilton Glass Co had just bought the Burlington Glass Co and were on the rise. The Thin Skirt Canadian Pacific were produced there about 1885 showing that the Canadian Pacific had placed their order with Hamilton .


Because the embossing on these Thin Print insulators was so fine and was never re-engraved we can see there was not a large production of these.

  One thing to note is the colours of these are the same as the Whittle Mould Un-embossed insulators showing that when the No Embossing Montreal style were done the Whittle Mould replaced them as the no-embossing mould. 


IDENTIFICATION


The easiest way to identify the two moulds quickly is to put your baby finger on the mould line near the Y in RY. 


SQUARE DOME
On this mould there is 9/16ths inches from the Y to the mould line.


ROUND DOME
The distance from the Y in RY to the mould line on this one is 3/4's of an inch.

Below images are Top row .. Ice Green on left .........Ice Yellow Green on right

                            Second Row ..Light Green on left ...Blue Aqua on right

                            Third row .. Light Purple on left (could not adjust colour to look right) ...Blue Gray on right , This one                             came from above Almonte as the lines were coming down ,it is the only one in this colour I have ever seen.

                       WHITTLE MOULDS


Replacing the No Embossing Montreal style moulds these likely began in 1884 and continued till about 1887 .  At this time 1884 - 87  Hamilton was not making a No Embossing CD 143.


Each mould in this group at  the start produced a clean normal insulator . Later the insulators began to have defects , some moulds worse than others . Up until that time the moulds of the Excelsior Glass Co. which became the North American Glass Co . had good moulds , so why the bad moulds now .  I believe these moulds were exposed to the fire in 1885 at North American Glass Co. this caused the mould to deteriorate over time .


While most people feel there are only two moulds in this group , I find there are three .


 MOULD # 1.. The easiest to identify is the one that comes with a tiny dot that sticks out from the skirt because of a small flaw in the mould . When holding the insulator with the correct side facing you the dot is on the right hand side on the skirt 11/16ths inches from the mould line. Also when looking at the mould line on the dome one can see an almost flat top to the insulator that is 3/4's of an inch wide. This one is the one that became very "whittled" by the end.

Below pictures are...Top Row Fresh Mould on left ....... Aqua bottle glass on right, I consider this a rare colour.

                               Second Row shows flat dome on left .....dot on skirt is shown on right with red line.

                                Third Row is later stage heavily whittled .                    

MOULD # 2.. The next one when looking at the dome on one face, coming down from the mould line 3/4's of an inch in the center , there is a circle about 1/4 inch across . On the fresh mould it is very faint , it becomes more noticeable over time. This mould has a smooth curve to the dome . It became less whittled than mould # 1 .

Below pictures are  ....Fresh Mould on left ,Note the smooth curve of the dome ....Later stage medium whittled

                                  Second Row ...Round dot on dome in later life of mould .

MOULD # 3.. This will be harder to explain as there is no obvious mark on this one . That though in itself is the first step to identify this mould .There is no small dot as in #1 . There is no circle as in #2 .

In looking at the dome it does not have the smooth arc of the #2 or the flat spot of #1 . Instead in looking at the face of one side one can see that about 1 inch down from the dome following the mould line on each side there is a slight bulge. This gives a bulky look to the dome .

The most important feature is that shortly after it was made , the mould line in the wire groove on both sides  has a repair that is seen as rectangular boxes about 1/8th inch wide on each side of the mould line. 

This rework is never found on #2  which this insulator is often confused with.

This mould instead of the "whittle " look , gets more of an orange peel look.

Below pictures are ....Top Row ...Fresh mould on left. Note slight bulge on dome on each side .This is different from the smooth arc of mould # 2.

  Top Row right is later stage of mould in a blue gray .

Second Row ... shows repair shortly after mould was made .

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                                      HAMILTON MADE MOULD LINE OVER DOME CD 143's

THIN SKIRT ...  CANADIAN PACIFIC RY 1885 till 1887 


Many years ago I classed these two moulds as being made at Montreal , I was incorrect . As time and a greater understanding of the glass works and the different telegraph companies , their time frames and the distribution of insulators , a greater understanding was gained.                                                                                                                I had posted on ICAN ( Insulators Canada ) and it is a shame that that site ended. New info and mistakes could be easily corrected and the forum type site allowed others to contribute pictures and insites. So I miss that site.
As noted in the THIN PRINT write up above the fire at North American Glass Co.in 1885 may have led the Canadian Pacific to have their insulators made at Hamilton.
The Thin Skirt insulator group are in two moulds . While the initial description is clear the evolution of the moulds is more complex.

 

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 NOTE ... EVOLUTION OF THE MOULD  


These moulds were replaced as the Canadian Pacific Ry when the new Backwards C group Canadian Pacific moulds replaced them in 1887. They then became the No Embossing moulds. As such they stayed at Hamilton even after the Diamond Glass Co bought out the Hamilton Co. in 1891 . 
Later in 1898 they were sent  to the Toronto Glass Co. (as Hamilton closed down). It is there they became the Short Skirt ( low wire groove) moulds in  both no embossing and Canadian Pacific Ry variants.

 
THIS LOOK AT THEM WILL DEAL WITH ONE MOULD AT A TIME THROUGH THE CHANGES.


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MOULD # 1...Hamilton made CANADIAN PACIFIC RY . MYSTERY

.  

  This mould has a variant that is 5/8ths+ ( hair over) from the C to the mould line. The Y is 9/16ths+ to the mould line.    The total embossing is 3&1/8th inches . The most obvious difference in hand is to look at the D in Canadian , it is much more slender than the original . It is the only one in both moulds that has the skinny D and taller letters .                            Of all the thin skirt ones I have I have only one of this variant. I am unsure of how it fits . It must have come first as there is no offset of the dome as in later life of this mould . Any input from others would help.

 
MOULD # 1A.. CANADIAN PACIFIC RY ... Hamilton made.

 This insulator has an embossing that begins with the C being 5/8ths of an inch from the right mould line . The Y in ends 9/16ths inch from the left mould line.  The total embossing is almost 3&1/4 inches.  From mould line to mould line is 4&3/8ths inches, keep in mind that the skirt can stretch .                            

Here we need to look for ( if using the plastic embossing copies ) odd ones that have a slightly longer embossing. They are not re-embossed , it is the thin skirt that has stretched slightly . By measuring the mould line to the C & Y and mould line to mould  line , it is seen that they are just stretched.   As time went the mould halves became uneven while still a Canadian Pacific.

 

Pictures below are Left side Mystery Mould # 1............Right side is Mould # 1A
 

NO EMBOSSING MOULD # 1 ... Hamilton made .

   

 It was then used as a No Embossing mould . The off set mould halves continued.

Pictures below are on Left side mould # 1A with embossing......On Right side  is No Embossing rework of # 1A

Bottom picture is No Embossing rework of # 1A turned into a Short Skirt No Embossing

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 NOTE ....SHORT SKIRT MOULDS ..  TORONTO GLASS CO 1898-99 till 1903 when Hamilton re opened .

It is at that time 1903 Hamilton began to make the three piece moulds.  
 In 1898-99 the No Embossing was changed into a Short Skirt , others refer to this style as Low Wire Groove , it is not , as the groove to the dome remains the same and the skirt is shortened by making it a Round Base or MLOB   ( mould line over base .) 


These Toronto Round Base ones are different from the Burlington made ones in that these ones had a plate added to the cut off base of the old mould , this leaves a machined line around the base where the curve meets the skirt. 


 Short Skirt insulators come in the rich aqua found in many of the early Toronto made fruit jars .


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NO EMBOSSING SHORT SKIRT , MOULD # 1 . Toronto made . 


The off set of the mould halves continues on these .

SHORT SKIRT ...CANADIAN / PACIFIC RY CO. MOULD #1

The un embossed mould later is given the Canadian / Pacific Ry Co embossing . The mould off set is cleaned up but the off set in the wire groove is still found. On these the mould line splits the embossing. There are two variants in this one mould .


MOULD # 1A 

The embossing of Canadian is 1&5/8ths inches from the C to the mould line . The N ends a little less than 1/8th inch from the mould line. The P in Pacific starts 1/8th inch from the mould line , and the O in CO ends just over 2&1/4 inches from the mould line. 

MOULD # 1B

 This one is a re engraving of # 1A  

  The embossing of Canadian is 1&3/4 inches it ends a little less than 1/4 inch from the mould line. The P in Pacific starts 1/8th inch from the mould line and the O in CO ends just over 2&3/16ths from the mould line.

   Pictures below are on Left side Mould  # 1A ...........Right side is Mould # 1B Note "N" to mould line is 1/4 inch.                                                  
 

                                                                      NOTE ... END OF THE MOULD #1


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 MOULD #2 ..  THIN SKIRT .. CANADIAN PACIFIC RY ..  Hamilton made .  

 This insulator has an embossing that begins with the C being 5/8ths of an inch from the right mould line .  The Y in ends 9/16ths inch from the left mould line.   The total embossing is 3&1/16 keep in mind that slight stretch can be found.

 I had to question myself at first as to how the embossing could be shorter than mould #1 if both moulds have the same start and finish of mould line to embossing C & Y . It is because the diameter of the mould is smaller . From mould line to mould line is 4&1/4 inches ( mould #1 is 4&3/8ths.)    This mould didn't have the off set mould halves till it became a no embossing.

NO EMBOSSING THIN SKIRT # 2 MOULD ... Hamilton made .


Shortly after the embossing is machined off the mould began to have the off set of the mould halves. To correct this the domes were filed to make them match. This leaves a pointy dome .

Pictures below on  Left side Mould # 2 Thin Skirt.......Right side Mould # 2 changed to No Embossing Notice off set mould

 

Bottom picture is Mould # 2 No Embossing off set is repaired by filing both sides even, this leaves a point on the top of dome.
 


 

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NOTE This ends the Thin Skirt and it becomes a Short Skirt.
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NO EMBOSSING . SHORT SKIRT # 2 MOULD Toronto made.

NOTE ..I find no evidence of a Short Skirt No Embossing in the # 2 mould.
 Again like mould #1 the above Thin Skirt mould was changed into a Short Skirt in 1898 .                                                    

CANADIAN PACIFIC RY SHORT SKIRT # 2 MOULD .. Toronto made..

  Again like mould #1 the above Thin Skirt mould was changed into a Short Skirt in 1898 .  Mould #2 went straight to a Canadian Pacific embossing.


  Before the description it is needed to take a look at the profile of the no embossing Thin Skirt and the new Short Skirt Can Pac that is made from it . They look very different , the Can Pac is more slender . The reason for this is that the two mould halves were turned on their sides and milled ( machined ) taking off some of the mould at the mould line. The original Thin Skirt un-embossed is 4&3/16ths mould line to mould line above the wire groove , while the milled Short Skirt Can Pac is only 4&1/16th inches.

There is only one variant for this one . Again the mould line splits the embossing.

 
MOULD # 2A..  The embossing of Canadian is 1&5/8ths inches it ends 1/8th inch from the mould line. The P in Pacific starts 1/8th inch from the mould line and the O in CO ends 2&3/16ths from the mould line.

 

Picture below is Mould #2A -Notice slender profile because of the milling of the mould faces at the mould line.